deegor
發表於 2014-11-12 23:27:33
擔定櫈仔睇好嘢！X2
C9.99
發表於 2014-11-13 00:17:37
多謝各位捧場，俾d時間我，等等好好寫埋Betriebsk呢部分先。不過相信都要十二月份先有新update。
亦歡迎大家討論一下。
Carson
發表於 2014-11-13 06:38:40
Thanks Ming CHing, very appreciate for your sharing.
What do you think about those 'Dummy lens'? Does that mean 'pre-production sample'?
Is the construction different or same as the bulk production lens?
C9.99
發表於 2014-11-13 09:42:53
Carson 發表於 2014-11-13 06:38
Thanks Ming CHing, very appreciate for your sharing.
What do you think about those 'Dummy lens'? Doe ...
照我經驗，Leica dummy lenses一般都係用以店頭展示用，估計與Prototype無關。
如果Leica prototype的話，好多時佢地既optical computation係同最後推出市面既最終版本有不同。
Carson
發表於 2014-11-13 10:20:58
C9.99 發表於 2014-11-13 13:42
照我經驗，Leica dummy lenses一般都係用以店頭展示用，估計與Prototype無關。
如果Leica prototype的話， ...
I see, Thanks Ming CHing.
zaurus
發表於 2014-11-13 14:42:38
又學到野{:5_268:}{:5_268:}
imojo
發表於 2014-11-14 13:34:33
Ming gor, I hope you do not mind my adding the M3D ( http://leicaphilia.com/the-leica-m3d/ ) as a side note to this thread. It may be of interest to chings who have not heard of this model and wanting something different. The M3D is a production model albeit only 4 units were ever produced, all for David Douglas Duncan in 1955; therefore, not a prototype but perhaps a field test model for the 1956 MP. The latter is the reason for this post in your thread.
A footnote to all Nikon lovers, DDD was the photographer that made Nikon lenses famous with his work during the Korean War. Critics were not happy with the Nikon softer corners as compared with the more balanced Leicas but the press photographers loved them “the action is in the center”.
I have a fully functional M2 with attrape (dummy) top cover, purchased from a local ching 10-12 years ago. As I recalled, Leicashop has working M2 attrapes at a small premium over standard M2’s, much less than the quick load M2R’s.
C9.99
發表於 2014-11-14 13:47:53
本帖最後由 C9.99 於 2014-11-14 14:36 編輯
imojo 發表於 2014-11-14 13:34
Ming gor, I hope you do not mind my adding the M3D ( http://leicaphilia.com/the-leica-m3d/ ) as a si ...
M3D呢part，自己昨天先同版主Panda傾完，佢d料多過我，等佢介紹仲好。
imojo
發表於 2014-11-14 16:46:07
C9.99 發表於 2014-11-14 13:47
M3D呢part，自己昨天先同版主Panda傾完，佢d料多過我，等佢介紹仲好。
Sorry I did not mean to jump the gun on your pending discussions. I am sure Panda, you and others have a lot more history and insight on this. Waiting to learn more.
dannytiong
發表於 2014-11-14 17:38:34
圖文並茂, 獲益良多, 多謝分享!
Pandachief
發表於 2014-11-14 20:40:03
Let me try to post some sharing of M3D and how it evolved to MP Original (Mostly learn from Lars)...
I hope end of this month will have chance to meet the legendary David Douglas Duncan in person!! After dinning and meeting Elliot Erwitt several times.. if I can also shake David Duncan's hand.. will be amazing!! Two living legends!
Pandachief
發表於 2014-11-17 13:45:59
Just noticed that most of what I want to cover already highlighted in Lars' interview.. very very cool stories...
One interesting exception was the Leicavit rapid winder. Designed to attach to the Leica III and IIIf in place of a base plate, the Leicavit could not be used on the M3 – or rather, no M3 version of it was made available. The reason was that the internal mechanism that controlled the M3′s automatically re-setting frame counter left no room for the extended spool axis. It was none other than the famous LIFE photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt who, being so accustomed to the Leicavit, openly criticised its non-availability for the M3 – so much so that there were concerns he may switch to a different brand. As a result, the Leica M3E was made specifically for him – an M3 with Leicavit. No less than four models of the same version were also produced for David Douglas Duncan, under the name of Leica M3D. These cameras were essentially the pilot run of the now famous Leica MP, which was manufactured from 1956 onwards in a production run of just 402 units. In comparison, by 1967 almost a quarter of a million units of the M3 had been produced.
So DDD to some extend is the reason of the creation of MP original!
Pandachief
發表於 2014-11-17 13:56:27
When Lars was here least time, he actually show us many letters between DDD and Leicas in "complaining" the M3 cannot attach Leicavit and he will only stay with his IIIG.Leica think that it is so important to have DDD use a Leica M because he is so famous and important photographer if he don't like the new M it is something of a huge concern for Leica.So they started to work closely with DDD and came up with 4 M3D (prototype of MP you can call them, the D stands for Duncan).During the process they realized a lot of famous photographers and press also have similar demand so they start making the MP original, sell to press only, on order.They are specific camera for specific reporters and therefore it won't follow the standard Leica serial number... it have it's own set of serial number. I believe up to now it is the only production camera model that don't follow standard serial sequence.
Because it is such a specialized camera for a group of photographers who made Leica what it is!!That's why MP have a special place in Leica history.
MP a lot of them comes in paris own by the same photographers because some will have one main and one backup camera.So quite often you will see one very used one and a newer one right after the serial.The first 200 or so were sold directly to press photographers but some believe the later ones are addional cameras made so you often find very new condition MP only after serial 300.While the first 100+ are black paint, some were chrome even in earlier serial numbers for example MP-4.Also some were made with 35mm frameline with SP engraved on top plate.. very rare indeed.
Sorry all of the above were type during a very boring meeting which I am still inside the meeting...will read it again and correct errors/mistakes and add to it later... but the most important thing is, hope all these sharings can drive more discussions and interest!
Pandachief
發表於 2014-11-17 13:58:22
Some very old sharings I made in HKLFC many years ago..Let's copy it here for discussion too.. I think I have a few more points to add and some corrections which I will add later:
Copied from HKLFC:
Some sharing in identifying MP original from fake... for sharing....
1. Buy from reliable source, and if possible, try to trace the history of your particular MP. It is easier than you expected because each MP is such a high profile piece with unique serial number. In many case, you can actually trace it back up to who the original reporter is and make contact if he/she still alive!
2. Make sure the MPXXX engraving are in the standard correct place, this is very important as most after market from spare parts have it slight off.
3. Make sure the serial number are engraved inside the bottom cover is there
4. For most MP I tried, it have a very bouncy feel when compare to M3 in how the shutter and winder feel (Not sure if it is due to the steel gear inside, this point also for reference only)
5. Double brake design that M2 employed (Need to open bottom to check) This is important information because budda ear M3 have single brake so it is difficult to reuse M2 or M3 parts for MP.
6. Pay extra attention for near new condition MP! They are for heavy use!!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Especially earlier one before 300, the first 2xx MP were sold to reporters and used regularly, from 300 onward, there are some left over stock that are spares or not being sold...likely can find a newer one (For reference only)
7. Make sure it is not modified and up to spec. such as double stroke, M3 finder, no self timer, budda ear, M2 counter dial etc.
8. The back film door should have the screw in the more center area instead of in the corner but the ISO dail should be up to 1000.
9. Most sample I tried have the shutter button set up very high (This is for reference only)
10. The engravings at the top plate seems slightly darker especially the shutter dail and the red arrow are almost all fated and become black. Making it a very "black and white" look at the top (This only apply to chrome model)
11. The side lower edge of the back door have a more dramatic longer slope where it touch the body shell, the M3 and M2 ones have a shorter slope (Sorry, this one is hard to explain without a picture)
12. I think for black paint model, you should also apply your knowledge about black paint leica in general, but for MP, they are never glossy, more like the earlier M2 black paint.
C9.99
發表於 2014-11-18 00:35:42
多謝Panda分享呀。
C9.99
發表於 2014-11-18 00:44:01
eBay剛好出現一部M3 Betriebsk, 內外沒有任何特別feature, 但其底蓋內之serial engrave值得在此留一個reference, 以便大家日後若有需要可作個比對。
C9.99
發表於 2014-11-18 01:23:07
上文提及Betriebsk中只有三部帶有電動過片摩打，分別為M3-1147, 另外兩部則為MP-1166及MP-1167，其中MP-1167於2005年5月份在Westlicht拍賣以€78500成交，當時此價錢已經幾乎可以在荃灣或沙田全資購買一個上車的小單位了，拍賣內容中亦有提及MP-1166可能已經被銷毀，大家不妨參考一下。
bubu
發表於 2014-11-18 07:42:54
真的是異品!
samfre
發表於 2014-11-18 20:46:15
大開眼介,謝謝{:4_134:}
rthtmf
發表於 2014-11-20 15:01:04
多謝分享!